I find lot's of faults, if you knew what IQ where you wouldn't be that high about it, You can explain it in this way IQ is the measure the same way Ghz is to a PC processor. And i don't blame a non-existent thingy, i blame the whole concept of religion for lying and covering up for it's delusional BS. No you're wrong, ghosts do not exist, they would have no consciousness or brain to do any task or live what you call a life, they would just be plain energy fields. space has GIANT amounts of what's unknown energy to us and lots off it is sent to earth, which in the future can explain what you today think is "supernatural", faith and belief is the same thing, it's an unproven theory which one does not want to prove, either because "it fits you the most, or you're afraid to get unhappy if the truth proves you wrong". The energy a dead body releases are called electrical impulses which are what makes us rot and become to dirt. Electrons from our body are transferred, since you have an IQ you might now "energy can not be made nor vanish, just change form" that's what's happening, our body contains energy and when we die it changes or get's transferred, that is not evidence of a soul, what you call our soul is our mind, soul was a term to describe consciousness. You claim to have studied psychology since you were 6, then you might already know that nearly all human actions are based on egocentric thoughts or ideas, some not noticeable, some are. You know you are up against " a philosopher, freethinker, and atheist"? there's little you can do to affect me, what i got from wikipedia was about freethought, you claim wikipedia is wrong, but it's monitored and what you do is actually setting yourself up against a corner, cause you have used wikipedia to gather information yourself, therefore your statement about that being wrong would fail rest of my sources are a forum for freethinkers, atheists, etc. and satan was punished why? because he gave man ways to feel good? all the sins leads to emotional satisfaction, why wouldn't god grant us what makes us want to live? and then again, religion says human is the only living thing that has a soul, how? we are animals, we didn't evolve as much as we think, we gained knowledge that what's different. And again back to iq, iq doesn't mean knowledge, iq is the measure of the brain getting information, people with high iq understands things easier and information is easier to comprehend and certain logic tasks easier to do than for the common, it's a matter of information not how smart you are, you could have a high iq but still be dumb, even though you would've have to have no education or contact with the world what so ever, a person with lower iq can also be smart, the difference is the way the brain handle information gained through your senses. so in your case a religion in about 2000 years based on the lord of the rings books would be right cause it stood in an old book? this might happen, you never know how stupid some people might be. And the smartest thing the creators of the religion did was creating solutions nearly impossible to find wrong or disprove. Heaven, comes from the word "sky" the english language has changed, they chose the sky cause man couldn't get up there to prove his existence, they should have that, they where good at making things hard to disprove and no, America was not founded upon Christianity, search the web, most sites disagree with you, if i showed this forum to the other forum you would be trolled to death by freethinkers, why do you give God "human things" (sorry can't remember it's name im not english) like emotions, compassion, consciousness, and you can't compare a garage to a church, Church was created for religious people, people who disbelieved where killed BY CHURCH STAFF! every day religion grows smaller and smaller and only the poorest countries believe. I've been in lot's of these discussion, whatever you say you have no proof, the stories could just be as LOTR in the start a book, but people found what's in it interesting and believed in it, you also have the nerd maniacs you see on conventions, right? No one is perfect, no one can be, as i said, a perfect life is no life at all. Still humans tend to tear down what's life to make it easier to survive at the same time they make the will to live smaller, statistics say 3 million people commit suicide on a yearly basis, why? bored of life, found no reason to live, sadness, grief, sorrow, sickness? many factors, I go to church if i have to, like when it's a funeral or a wedding or birth. But other than that i don't, i find the speeches in the church boring long, and dumb. Faith doesn't make you smarter, faith is only a veil to cover your fears and what you really don't care about to know. Space is big therefore phenomenas has many factors which is still unknown to us because we haven't reached that kind of knowledge yet, but we will. Was there anything more, oh great oracle?

no, i don't need help, it's not my way to comprehend. And saying you pray for me and such just annoys the crap out of me, my mother didn't smile for a year after that, she never laughed that year. I got over it after some months, then again, my uncle overdosed the year after, then my mums uncle died of cancer, and one of those who prevented me from killing myself, one who stands extremely close to me has cancer, but no, this is not my way of handling it, it's my way of destroying lies and ignorance, and replace it with reality and reason. Saying it's my way of handling it is wrong, i handle stuff by writing poems or listen to music. I'm obsessed in destroying religion and faith, that's my obsession and i will accomplish, and when i do. People won't be so arrogant, they will only find out that we're all as worthless and stupid as one another, no one is better, no one is worse, we're all as lost as each-other. Some actually gave me "predictions of the future" as evidence to support religion, but if you take the amount of people saying something will happen and the days for the past 2000 years, there has been more prediction than days, which means there's a 99,9999% chance that something will happen, and if the american teaching system weren't so corrupt you would know that everything happening is pure random, nothing is pattern, we can die anytime, not because it's how it was written since the future is unwritten, it's because of random events changing the future all the time, that's why it's unwritten and unpredictable, nearly anything can happen. Nothing can make you change my mind about religion, i made my own purpose instead of serving a false purpose of striving to be perfect. And im more sure that what i want, is closer than what you want. I am happy, even though it might not seem like it. You say i have lot's of hate, but on the other-side I've got lot's of love for the things i appreciate, i have just as much hate as love. And also take in mind the placebo-effect, and if you haven't heard about it, finish school, since wikipedia isn't trustworthy for you, don't use it to find it out, don't even use the web to find it out, the info on the web is after all made by human, so why should it convince you? EDIT** one more thing, do you believe in magic? voodoo? demons? trolls? dragons? unicorns? a phoenix? why don't you believe in religions with several gods? if you answer because it's mythology, u have already been pushed in the corner and everything you say is the opposite of what you try to prove!

Now you're attacking me a bit more personally. I resent your last statement. See, I'd rather be right and lose nothing than be wrong and lose everything. None of my sources where wikipedia, in fact I used no external sources besides what I already know. Surely you know what a self-fufilling prophesy is? You are doing it right now. I know things about psychology that you have stated. Yes. Calm down. The source you have from the forums are biased. You will only find what you wish. You are so full of anger that you only see what validates your opinion, just like how you claim religion does. I know what IQ is. Fine, I suppose I'm talking to someone who actually researches. Excuse my assumption that you where a bigot who's hatred was based on egocentriccites. About the founding fathers... I think you are just ignorant. Tell me then, Oh great philosopher; Oh wonderful freethinker... What did they base the constitution on? Not the idea of Democracy, mind you. But the words of the constitution. I know about the theory of evolution, I know all that shit. I think God created evolution. Why were we chosen, I don't know. The whole soul thing... It's a matter of I DON'T KNOW. I'll be honest. Again, I ask you: Why is there evidence to support the afterlife? What about electromagnetic voices? Ones that are intelligent answers to questions, not simply residual energy? Don't tell me there are coincidences. God does not want us to get addicted to things that are (yes, feel fantastic) but are bad. For instance: sex. Hello, AIDS, STI's? Unwanted babies? Pretty much anything in excess is bad for you, even if it is good. Like food, water. etc. I am not against you, you realize. I haven't been really trying to make this personal, but you are making it impossible. It is uncivil. To be honest, you are arguing for the fact that I cannot prove I am right. I am arguing for the fact that you cannot prove me wrong. I guess I am a coward. I guess I am stupid. I guess I am ignorant. But at least I am not full of hate. At least I can live my life with hope, even if it is unreal. Who are you to judge me? Oh, and reality is subjective, so what you stand for is only what you believe in anyways. You are so obsessed with this that it is your relgion. It blinds you as much as I guess God blinds me. You don't see the goodness of people, you see the world as a grey area. That saddens me. I wish that you weren't so horrible about yourself in the part where you said you are " a worthless waste of human pity which cannot accomplish shit and will end up dead before i reach the 30s." What kind of life is that? And if this doesn't bother you: "my lack of self-respect and lack of self-esteem makes me worse, but that doesn't bother me" You are just like the people you condemn. I believe in all those things. I have aztec backgrounds. Now I think you misunderstand what kind of person I am. I think all religons have merit. All is based in truth. God himself said "Do not put other Gods before me." He was stating the fact that there are other Gods, if you notice. AND NOW YOU ATTACK MY COUNTRY. Okay, we aren't even talking about that, now you are spewing out things just to try and hurt me and make me mad. I don't predict things, I don't try to be perfect. Excuse me for chosing hope rather than oblivion. *EDIT* You are jilted by religion because it didn't produce anything that you wanted. Oh, and demons are of the Christian faith, you know. I don't believe the future was written in advance either. We chose the road we walk on, the events that happen are by chance. There is so many variations of things that it would be ignorant of me to say otherwise. My life hasn't been all rainbows and butterflies but I'm not going to air out my dirty laundry on a forum. Fine, rather than saying I'll pray for you, since it makes you see red, I'll say I wish you well. I wish you more happiness in whatever you find it in. I'm not trying to make you believe here. I'm just trying to say that again: you can't prove me wrong and I can't prove I'm right. Take it and leave it. This will be a never ending vicious circle if we continue with this. I just want peace.

Oblivion is the truth, you can't stop it no matter what, the world will end and humanity will die at some point, everything we ever did will parish and nothing about us will be remembered. Do you think humanity is the only living thing with intellect in the universe? "What about electromagnetic voices? Ones that are intelligent answers to questions" how can you prove that, modern technology can make sounds like that through a microphone if they want to, we can do nearly anything, sex isn't bad it's what makes us exist, without sex you wouldn't have been born and non of today would be like it is, it's a matter of reproduction. And yes everything happens at random, it serves no purpose, if it did, can you tell me then why it happens, not how but why for what reason? water and food is only bad in big amounts, water only if you take ecstasy or try in other cases except drinking "drowning". I don't attack your country i attack your government, the country is the people living within it not the government itself, every government is corrupt even my country's. And no it isn't a religion, a religion would be something not proven, i don't believe in gravity, i know it exists therefor i do not believe in it. and that, i might be like them but in form of truth, knowledge and facts, not false hopes. You're 15 you might "hope" to accomplish something big in you're future, but you will find yourself enable to do that, you will hit many obstacles, and no, i see the world as a sketch in black and white not a shade of grey (black and white represents positive and negative energy)and if something you loved where about to be gone, would you rather have that false hope that you think it might come back or would you know the truth, that it's not coming back and rather prepare for that moment when it's gone? You can describe hope like this (a want for something to happen but deep inside you know it wont) that's hope, and where did i attack you personally? if i did, it wasn't the purpose, sorry for that. Sometimes people try to make so much sense out of something that isn't supposed to make sense. so now, what more do you have to say? and the body itself makes you full, you can't eat urself to death in that way, but you can die of the food you eat. (heart-diseases) what do you then think about the satanic church (im not into satanism) that's what satanism is, it has nothing to do with the devil or god, people talk about it without knowing what it is The Church of Satan does not worship or support a belief in the Devil or other supernatural entities. "My real feeling is that anybody who believes in supernatural entities on some level is insane. Whether they believe in The Devil or God, they are abdicating reason," said Peter Gilmore. Gilmore defines the word Satan: "Satan is a model or a mode of behavior. Satan in Hebrew means 'adversary' or 'opposer'; one who questions." Satanists within the Church of Satan adhere to these as guidelines on how to live. However, it is important to remember that Satanists generally do not view the Satanic sins, statements, and rules of the earth as things that one must go out of their way to do. The Satanist ideally sees these things as truisms and how they naturally live their lives, as opposed to a Christian or Jew, who would strive to follow the words of Christ or the mitzvot, respectively. The Nine Satanic Statements The Nine Satanic Statements outline what "Satan" represents in the Church of Satan: Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development", has become the most vicious animal of all. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years. The Nine Satanic Sins Stupidity Pretentiousness Solipsism Self-deceit Herd Conformity Lack of Perspective Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies Counterproductive Pride Lack of Aesthetics The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them. When in another's lair, show them respect or else do not go there. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself. Do not harm little children. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they don’t stop, destroy them.

It's true, I am trying to make sense of something that can't possibly make sense. So I am stupid because I hope and because I have faith and I believe. Excuse me for choosing for choosing what you might call blissful ignorance to reality. "and the body itself makes you full, you can't eat urself to death in that way" What if your body is not capable of sending the neurological information that you are, indeed, full? Sex in excess, I meant as in promiscuity, not the act. Not for reproductive purposes. "Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years."And I say "Satan is the best liar, he has even led you to believe he doesn't exist." Have you ever heard of the "Brain in the Jar" Experiment? If not, here: The reality you perceive around you is nothing more than interpreted information. Your sensory organs (sight, sound, touch, taste, smell) take in information and convert it into electrical signals that carry the information in the form of binary 1's and 0's, kind of like Morse Code. The electrical signals pass over neural passageways in the brain and produce a movie for you to watch, hear, taste, smell, and feel. This is how you perceive reality. It is entirely possible that you could be a brain in a jar hooked up to a computer that is sending the EXACT same electrical signals to your brain as you are getting right now. You would be seeing the EXACT same thing you are right now, and there would be ZERO way to tell the difference.In effect, you can't prove that the material universe begins to exist. You belive in materialsim/naturalism. AKA REALITY. Consider that in 2007 a Quantum Physicist by the name of Alain Aspect successfully ran an experiment first proposed my famed Quantum Physicist John Archibald Wheeler, called the Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser. This experiment laid to rest once and for all what causes the collapse of a wave function of a particle in superposition. It had long been debated that it could be the instrument itself that causes collapse, and that the "observer" need not be conscious, that is no longer possible ladies and gentlemen... The experiment ran by Aspect CONCLUSIVELY proved that the sole cause of the collapse was the observer, a.k.a. Consciousness. This means that THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MIND INDEPENDENT MATERIAL. The Hard Problem of Consciousness has plagued materialist scientists for ages, and seems impossible to explain. So what we have is this: It is IMPOSSIBLE to prove that the material universe actually exists, AND it has just recently been proven that material cannot exist without consciousness, so materialists can't even explain how material could ever produce consciousness! This means that matter depends on consciousness.What about the Ivan Values in a Wave Equation?! Just the mathematical probability of actually observing something! More of an idea than an actual thing!You are clinging to ancient Newtonian Physics that no longer resembles what we now know. Materialism is going away FAST. A conclusion based upon a false assumption produces nothing more than an elegantly formulated incorrect result. SO WE ARE ALL WRONG IN A SENSE THAT WE MAY NOT EVEN TRULY EXIST. Now I'm done. End of.

it will end at some point in the future, anti religion grows double as fast as religion itself so, either it will be war, or the population against religion will imprison those for it because it's so many more against than for. And i am happy, as i mentioned earlier, i just know i dont serve a greater purpose, that's the only thing, other than that im happy, lol, just because this is a discussion and im not using smileyfaces doesn't mean im unhappy, im quite satisfied, if i had been more satisfied i would've been unsatisfied cause it would've been more boring than it is, and this topic is now officially closed!

lol, i know about that, i already know that reality differs from person to person, reality is just the electrical impulses of info your brain get's through your senses. But "THE" reality is not as "a" reality. but you're saying we might not exist at all, well it feels like it, but at the same time i could be an insane person thinking this is real, but it's not, i wouldn't know the difference, but the people around me would.... if you read that first part about satanism, it's not about satan, satan means something else than "the devil" The Church of Satan does not worship or support a belief in the Devil or other supernatural entities. "My real feeling is that anybody who believes in supernatural entities on some level is insane. Whether they believe in The Devil or God, they are abdicating reason," said Peter Gilmore. Gilmore defines the word Satan: "Satan is a model or a mode of behavior. Satan in Hebrew means 'adversary' or 'opposer'; one who questions." By that they mean, corrupt priests, bishops and other kept the church going by collecting money, and by doing that they sinned and did something against their religion, that's what it means not that the devil held it up and running.

Most of this seemed centered on Christianity. XD Well don't get me wrong, I nearly agree with all that was said. Christianity is what makes me the most angry aswell. I know it is among the most annoying and 'in your face' religions around, infact the most in the western world, where it is even more courrupt and delusive. Still, In my opinion you probobly should of put in a little more material touching on other specific religions, such as Islam, Judaism (Although perhaps Judaism was covered with the generalisation of 'god')and some pagan religions. I can't just say 'A bit of everything', due to the exception of LaVeyan Satanism, which is made up of Atheists, Agnostics and Apatheists. One of the People you mentioned; Marilyn Manson, is a high preist in the Church of Satan. I'm sure you may very well have been aware of that, I just wanted to highlight a religion that doesn't conflict with anything said in your own words or in the quotes, other than the fact it's a still a religion. My point is if theres one religion like that, there could be a few similiar. (Although I am having a hard time simply imagining it, just wanted to throw that theory in). :L Sorry if whole post was an eye sore, I'm not good with these kind of things. And sorry about your little bro. -EDIT- Fuck me, ya'll type fast. I started typing this after: "it was his time, he was 7 days old FFS SEVEN DAYS, most of my quotes weren't napolean read them all and you'll understand" Making me look bad, taking all long to type out the above. XD Well atleast you know what I typed came from the heart. XD -DOUBLE EDIT- Fuck me sideways, Actually reading through all of the posts, I see that's already been talked about FUCK ME :O I knew I was hearing familiar shit here. :O

hahahah xD If you really type that slow XD i wonder how long it would take for you to write a page XD

xD I'm not that slow a typer, was just thinking, taking a few stops to dance, and just looking for the correct terminology and stuff, so my post could actually be readable. 0_0